The Better Birth Podcast: Emma's healing second birth story

I listen to my client Emma's story of her second pregnancy and birth. Emma talks about why she chose to do a course with me, and the impact it had on both her own confidence in navigating the NHS maternity services, but how reassuring it was for her partner. She talks us through bumps in her pregnancy, and how despite the birth center being closed, she ensured she had a positive and magical birth!

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Welcome to the Better Birth podcast. My

name is Erin and I'm a hypnobirthing and anti -natal instructor, birth activist and all -round birth geek. In

this podcast I chat to experts in the field of pregnancy and birth, debunking myths around birth, diving into the research around maternity care and exploring what is it that means you're more likely to have a positive birthing experience. If

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you enjoy this podcast do feel free to buy me a coffee and fund my caffeine habits. Link

to my buy me a coffee page is in the podcast info. Enjoy

this episode. Welcome

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to the Better Birth podcast. We

have an amazing birth story today and I'm very very excited for you all to hear from the lovely Emma. Welcome

Emma. Hi.

Hello.

Do

you want to introduce yourself to everyone that's listening and give a little bit of background on why you wanted to show your birth story? Yeah,

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absolutely. So

I'm Emma. I'm

a mum. I've

an almost four year old and I just turned one year old. I

had a difficult first birth. It

was during Covid. There

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were quite a few complications. The

baby was in deep transverse arrest. I

ended up in four steps with an apesia otomy and a spine and it was a bit complicated. So

I kind of decided that for my second birth I needed to be a lot more prepared than I was for my first. Long

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before I got pregnant with my second I decided right, you know, this is going to take a really good amount of time. So

I'm going to do this before I even I'm even pregnant. So

I listened to your entire back catalogue of podcasts and obviously followed your Instagram account and followed some other amazing Instagram accounts, listened to some other really good podcasts and used that to kind of figure out what was important to me. And

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then when the time came that I was pregnant and I thought, right, okay, it's go time. I

obviously signed up for a hypno birthing course with you and I signed up for the three hour essentials course, which me and my other half did. I

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was really, really keen to do it for two reasons, mainly because I wanted my other half to learn a lot of the stuff which I felt like I knew. I

just thought that would be really important in helping you make decisions and him understanding why I wanted to do certain things. And

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then also just because I think I wanted all that additional knowledge and also I wanted to be able to talk to you. Like

I think if I know that you've got such a wealth of knowledge and I think it was so, so, so nice to actually be able to speak to you during my pregnancy after I'd signed up with the course. There

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was one instance which I'll go into in a little bit where, you know, it really, really came in handy being able to contact you and drop you a message to go, hey, I really, really need this. Like

what do I do? And

you were amazing and you came up with all the information. So

I think that in itself was invaluable. So

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yeah, that was the, that was the reason why I kind of signed up for a course with you. And

I think it was, it was definitely the right decision. Yeah.

And

I think you're really right. It's

not just for the person that's pregnant. It's

so important for birth partners. I

think quite often people will sign up to courses with me and they're already quite well educated because they have like listened to all the podcast episodes and they've been following all these amazing birth workers and they're quite, they're quite knowledgeable already. But

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the, the benefit for the birth partner is massive because they inevitably probably haven't done all of that research and they don't know all of that stuff. And

they're really, really important during, during birth because they're ideally there to support you, to advocate for you, to, to be your, your voice really. And

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I think that's really hard to do if you don't know anything at all. No.

And

I think, you know, the first birth, I think it was probably slightly more traumatic for him than it was for me, you know, seeing, seeing everything that happened being whizzed down to theatre, you know, he was left in a room on his own for about an hour. I

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think it was just an oversight. But,

you know, for him, he thought the worst had happened, something had either happened to me or to the baby and people weren't coming because they didn't know how to tell him. And

so he was very, very nervous going into the second pregnancy. And

I think initially he was just like, can we just have a plan cesarean? Because

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it would just, it would make everything calmer, it would make everything a lot easier. But

that's absolutely not what I wanted. And

I kind of, I needed to be able to educate him. And

it needed to be somebody who was based in sort of facts and statistics and science and not just, oh, yeah, this is what's best for you. It

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was somebody who could back it up. And

I think that's what's really, really important. And

for me as well, because that's how my brain works too. But

definitely for him, I think the fact that he could hear you talk about what statistically this is better or, you know, this is based in fact and research. And

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yeah, so it was definitely hugely beneficial for him, which meant it was hugely beneficial for both of us because, you know, it's a joint thing, as you say, really, he was my birth partner and I needed his support. So

yeah. Yeah.

So

do you want to talk a little bit about your last pregnancy and birth? I

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think it's important. There's,

there are a few things that happen during your pregnancy, which I think would be really good to share. Because

I still talk about them to this day to every client I talk to. So

do you want to pick up a little bit of some of your pregnancy and some of the challenges that you face and then you can move on to your birth story? Yeah,

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sure. So

my second pregnancy, like I'd expressed an interest very early on to my community midwife that I would like a home birth. And

the midwife said that I'd have to meet with the consultant for sign off because I'd had a previous postpartum hemorrhage. I

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think it was about 700 mil of blood. So

she said, you know, look, you have to meet with him, get him to sign up to it. I'll

book him an appointment. So

I thought, okay, fine, you know, I was quite educated by this point. So

I was happy to speak to him. I

was, but yeah, it's fine. I

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can I can fight my fight my case. But

she did say during that appointment, you know, home birth surfaces in our area are carried out by the community team, not by a dedicated home birth team. And

I didn't know this anyway, because I think before, before I'd had my first appointment with the community midwife, I'd actually tried to contact the dedicated home birth team that sort of covers our city. But

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sadly, I'm outside of their postcode lottery. I

have tried to convince them to take me because I'm just over the border. But

sadly, they said, we can't put your community team could offer you a home birth. But

when I spoke to her about it, she said, you know, services are already massively stressed, stretched, sorry, due to staffing in the hospitals. And

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you know, if there aren't enough midwives in the hospitals, then the ones from the community, they're the ones who get called straight in to cover on the the labor ward. So

she said, more often than not, the community midwives that are on call would get called into the hospital. So

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that instantly made me think, okay, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that, because it's then either free birth or go into the labor ward unprepared. Free

birth just wasn't an option for me really. I

think it's an amazing thing to do. But

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I just think I hadn't got that 100 % confidence in myself just yet. I

think because of the difficult first birth, whilst I was hugely confident, there was obviously just that little bit of niggling doubt that I would like a medical professional still available that, you know, that I could I could rely on. So

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yeah, she suggested the midwife led unit to me. The

midwife led unit at the hospital that I had my first baby up, which is about 10 minutes away from my house. That's

very rarely ever open. So

I wasn't even considering that as an option, but I didn't realise that the hospital that's about half an hour away from my house, they have a lovely, you know, fairly new midwife led unit, it's about two years old. It

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was lovely. And

the, you know, the community midwife suggested I go for have a look around that and that might be a really good option for me. She

said it's generally really well staffed because it's so new, they want to promote using it. So

she booked me an appointment for that. In

the meantime, I then had a consultant appointment for the home birth. And

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that was probably my first bump in the road, I would say. By

this point, I'd already signed up with you. I

don't think we'd actually had our course yet. No,

no, no, but I'd obviously already signed up with you and I'd had like, you know, a bit of chat via email and text and whatnot. And

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when I turned up to the appointment, one of the first things that I said to him was, Oh, I just quite like to record the meeting because my other half can't be here. He's

looking after my first, my first child and, you know, I'd like to take children to the appointments. So

can I record it please so that I can play it back to him because we like to be able to discuss these things afterwards. And

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he didn't know what to say. I

could immediately tell sort of his back went up and it was a bit like, I don't know if I'm happy with it. And

he kind of basically started off by saying, no, I'd then sort of push back and said, well, nicely, you know, I don't think it's really an option. Like,

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that's what I'm asking for. And

he undinered and undinered and went, oh, I don't know about trust policy, I need to track trust policy and leave it with me. Let

me go out and have a look. So

he went back out into the, you know, the main reception to go and find out I'm assuming from the other midwives, which is when I text you to say, help, I don't know what to do. You

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know, he's saying that it's trust policy. He

doesn't know trust policy, but I don't think he's going to let me record the appointment. And

I have a terrible memory. So

I was really, you know, sure that I wanted to record it because I knew that there would be important things said in this meeting, but I would want to listen back to you later and I would want to go back on. And

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you were amazing, of course. You

sent me over a load of, a load of information. I

think the Emma Rashworth birthright stuff as well. You

sent me a whole load of messages, which was amazing. And

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when he came back in, you know, I kind of said to him, look, you know, I've got some back up information here that proves that it is legal for me to record this appointment. And

I think by that point, he'd also realized that there isn't anything in their trust policy. Or

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if there was, he couldn't find it. So

he kind of, okay, okay, well, you know, if you think it's going to be detrimental to your care, then you can record it. So

obviously, I said yes, I do think it's going to be detrimental. Press

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record, put the phone, you know, on the chair next to me and then sort of forgot about it and, you know, add the rest of the appointment. But

that instantly then set me on edge because I then constantly felt like, okay, I'm going to have to fight for everything that I want because he won't even let me record the appointment. He's

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not going to let me have the birth I want. So

yeah, so that was a difficult appointment. He

did, you know, in the end recommend birth on the delivery suite because of the PPH. I

asked him what the reason was for the postpartum hemorrhage last time. He

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couldn't really give a confident answer. He

said, you know, it could have been because of the uterus contracting, giving the placenta, you know, there were plenty of things that he could have been, but they couldn't pinpoint exactly what it was. The

forceps delivery that I had with my first it was a very rough delivery. I

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would probably describe it as my son, bless him, he's still got two scars on his face from where the forceps were on his and his delivery and he was really battered and bruised when he was born. I

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obviously had an apesiotomy and it did give me lasting pelvic floor damage. Like

it was a really tough forceps delivery. So

in my head, I was kind of thinking, well chances are it's probably because of that because she literally had to pull him with all of her might to get him out. So

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in my head, I was thinking, well, I feel fairly confident it's probably that, but you know, that's fine. In

the end, we kind of agreed between us on a course of iron, taking iron tablets, sort of as a preventative, so that at least if we do go down that route, there's, you know, it covers the blood loss almost. And

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then he said, you know, we could review it again at around 32 weeks. So

I thought, yeah, that's fine. I'm

happy with that. At

least it's not a solid, it's not a solid no. And

I'll wait for my, wait for my next appointment. And

rest of pregnancy really then was fairly uneventful. He

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was a normal sized baby. My

first baby, he measured above the 90th centile. So

I was classed as a large baby, which put me technically at high risk, which I didn't realise at the time. And

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I didn't realise what that entailed. People

just told me, oh, you're high risk. So

I thought, oh, okay, I'm high risk. And

when I went into labour with him, first thing I said when I phoned the hospital was I'm high risk. I've

been told I've got to come in as soon as labour starts, which I did. And,

you know, that probably also contributed to the way everything went that way. So

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I was very conscious of that this time, with a lot more knowledge. My

second baby, you know, he was still large. He

was above the 80th centile. So

he wasn't little. But

because he was technically under that 90th centile, he was classed as a normal baby. So

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that made everything a lot easier because people asked a lot less questions about, you know, all of the high risk elements. I

went to view the midwife led unit with my other half. And

it was brilliant. Really,

really liked it. It

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had birthing cubes, it had stalls, it had birthing balls, peanut balls, it had loads of space to move the bed folded away into the wall. And

obviously it had gas in there, it had a pool. There

were, I think it was four or five rooms there. It

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was just lovely. It

was a lovely environment. And

when we went to see it, I thought, yeah, you know, I'm really happy with this. If

this is the route that I go down and I don't go down the home birth, I would more than happily do this. Logistically,

it worked really well. Because

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we do have two dogs and a toddler at home. So

home can be a bit loud and chaotic anyway. So

there was part of me that thought, actually, maybe this would be better. It

will be nice and quiet. I

haven't got to be worrying about what's happening with the dogs or the toddler or anything else. So

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yeah, I think from that point, I kind of decided actually, no, I'm pretty set on going with the midwife led unit. I

did keep pursuing the home birth option, just to see if I could get it approved, you know, just in case anything happened or I decided on the day that actually no, I want to stay at home. I

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don't want to go anywhere. So

yeah, I still wanted to push for that. But

in the back of my head, I was like, yeah, no, midwife led unit is good. So

I told the community midwife about it when I had my next appointment with her. And

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she set up a meeting with the consultant midwife, which was for I think it was around 37 weeks, which was actually quite excited about because from some of your podcast episodes, I'd listened to with consultant midwives, you know, I knew about the benefits that they could bring. And

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especially because my first delivery was a bit more complicated and people were a bit more reluctant to allow me to have that sort of physiological go. I

was really excited to speak to her. I

think she was quite new to the role as well. I

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think there'd been many years since we've had a consultant midwife in our trust. And

I think she'd only been here about a year. So

I thought that's good because she'll probably be really keen. So

secretly in my head, I was quite pleased. And

then, yeah, you know, the rest of pregnancy sort of just carried on going and it was really nice. It

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was nice and easy, nice and comfortable. But

then at I think it was 36 weeks on five days, I broke up from maternity leave a couple of days before. And

on this particular morning, I was up packing my son's bags for preschool. And

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I just felt a trickle on my legs. And

I thought it was my water's breaking because my water's broken my last delivery. And

they were a bit of a trickle. So

I thought, oh, and it was a little bit early. I

obviously hadn't quite hit 37 weeks at this point. So

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I thought, oh, okay, it's a little bit early. But

yeah, okay, you know, we can do this. Went

into the bathroom to have a look. And

actually it was blood like fresh red blood and instantly panic to the oh my god, that's not good. You

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know, this isn't what it should be. I

shouted to my other half, you know, that I was bleeding, you know, her neck stations. I

called the midwife because I was due to see her later that day anyway, my community midwife. I

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called her and said, what do I do? And

she said, call triage. So

I did. I

called the triage of the hospital nearest to me, not to the one that I'd decided to give birth in. Just

because I thought, if it is an emergency, it's 10 minutes away. I

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know that that is where they've got the NICU. In

an emergency situation, it is probably the best place to be. So

I called them and they asked some questions, how much blood is there, which was kind of hard to quantify because a lot of it was on my pedarmical trousers and it was like, I don't really know, but I described as best as I could and they said, yeah, you know, I think it sounds best if you come in to be checked. So

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my mother -in -law came over to look after us on me and my other half, whizzed over to the hospital. I

packed my drama bottoms in a bag so that they could see them, you know, put on a pad, jumped in the car. I

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never felt so scared in all my life. It

was a horrible, horrible drive to the hospital. That

wasn't anything that I prepared myself for mentally or, you know, all through hypnoburthing and all of the knowledge that I'd got. I

obviously hadn't factored this in as an eventuality at all. So

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yeah, that was pretty scary, but when we got there, we were seeing really quickly. The

midwife was really friendly. We

were made to feel at ease. They

took some bloods from me. They

did have a dry and leg exam and they said that I was two to three centimetres dilated. They

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put a CTG monitor on and they said, oh, you know, can you feel tightening? Well,

I don't know actually now that you say, yeah, I suppose I can. And

yeah, I was. I

was having, I would say, tight nings as opposed to contractions because it wasn't, it didn't feel like that real labour contraction that I'd had in my first, my first delivery, but I could certainly feel something. So

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they told me, you know, it's unlikely you'll be going home. You

know, potentially you'll be having your baby today. I

asked if I could go to their birth centre and I was told it's closed, which very often is. They

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also said that I, because I asked if I could use the birth ball on the delivery suite, because that was one of the key things in my birth plan this time was to have access to a pool. I

really, really love a bath. I

find it super relaxing. So

that was like one of the key, key things for me in this one to try and stay relaxed and stay focused. And

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they basically said, no, you can't because of the bleeding, we can't monitor the bleeding. So

you can't have access to the pool either. So

already I was feeling like I'm on the back foot. I'm

in the environment. I

didn't want to be in a pool. Don't

have access to a pool. At

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this point, I didn't even have my hospital bag. We

did take it with us. It

was in the car, but you know, in sort of the rush into the hospital, we'd left it in there and it was all a bit rushed. So

we stayed in that sort of observation room for a bit, just hooked up to the monitor, gave us a little bit of a chance to calm down. But

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at the same time, I did feel a little bit like I just sort of lying there with everything happening around me and all these other people coming in and, you know, seeing the midwives for their issues as well, because you can hear everything. Yeah,

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but once I knew that baby was okay, they transferred us to a room on the delivery suite. And

then really, I just kind of shifted my focus onto the birth. My

other half was great. You

know, he did everything he could to make that room on the delivery suite a nice environment. You

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know, he, the midwife sort of came in, hooked us up to the monitors and then left. She

was a different midwife that we hadn't seen before. So

we hadn't really got a relationship or a rapport with her anyway. And

once she'd gone my other half, you know, he went and flicked off the lights, so that there was minimal lighting. He

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tried to make me feel as comfortable as I could on the bed, you know, hooked up to all the monitors because that's not always very comfortable. You

know, made sure I got blankets or whatever it was that I needed. And

then he headed off to the car to get our bag so that, you know, I could have my other sort of home comfort out of that bag. And

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yeah, I think I was, I was really upset at that point that I couldn't have the experience that I wanted, or that I didn't feel like I was going to have the experience that I wanted. But

we just had to try and make the best of it because that's the situation you're in. And

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I think if you can, if you can make it work, then, then that's what needs to happen. So

that was what we focused on. You

know, all of the lights out in the corridors were on. It

was, it was really loud. There

was a lot of beeping. The

CTG monitor was constantly making a noise. The

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midwife would pop her head in and out every so often. I

could feel the tightnings. And

that was making me really uncomfortable sitting on the bed, whether it was because I was now more conscious of it. I

don't know. But

eventually, after we'd spent, I don't know how many hours sort of sat in this room, the contractions, they just started becoming slower, more spaced apart, less regular until really, I wasn't really noticing them that much. Then

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after a few hours, it was determined that actually I wasn't in active labour and I could go up to the anti -natal ward. So

I thought, okay, great. That's

good, I think. So

went up there. For

the next night and day, they just did more CTG monitoring, checked my oxygen blood pressure. I

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did have one very minor bleed. I

don't know whether that was maybe some residual blood from first bleed or something. I'm

not sure. So

I told the midwives about it. And

they basically said that the, the policy is to stay in for 24 hours after your last fresh bleed. So

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that kind of gave me a bit of a gold. If

I can get past that point, I can go home. So

the tightnings were there. Nobody

seemed concerned. You

know, whenever they looked at the monitors, there was nothing untoward. Everybody

seemed to have a bit of results that they were seeing. I'd

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got my appointment with the consultant midwife booked for the following day, not in the hospital that I was in, at a different hospital. So

I was really hopeful that I could get out for that because I was really, really keen to have that appointment. I

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knew that she would be the one to help me get the birth that I wanted, if I could get to that point. So

I was just trying to sort of hang in there for that. Then

on the day that I thought I'd be able to go home, the doctor came in to check the readings. She

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could see that everything looked fine. I

hadn't had any fresh blood in over 24 hours. She

booked me in for an ultrasound just to be safe, which was actually really great. My

other half, he came to that with me. And

we saw a really, really nice sonographer. He

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did a really, really detailed scan. Looked

at the placenta, looked at the baby, took loads of measurements, reassured us that, no, everything looks fine. I

can't see anything here that looks problematic. As

far as I'm concerned, it looks good. So

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that was really reassuring. When

we went back up, we spoke to the doctor. But

what she then said really shocked me because by this point, my other half had gone home and I was back on my own again. And

she said that she wanted to induce me the following day when I turned 37 weeks, even though everything was fine. I

26:42

told her I didn't want the induction. And

I'd rather have a caesarean. If

it was an emergency, and it really needed to happen, and he needed to come out now for whatever reason, I wanted a caesarean. From

my previous experience, I'd had a difficult forceps delivery without even having an induction. It

27:01

was a, you know, it wasn't just labelled naturally last time. So

my fear was that if I was induced, it would have even more repercussions. This

time, I would have an even higher chance of having forceps or a vantus delivery. As

27:17

I say, I'd already got pelvic floor damage from the first delivery. So

I really didn't want to risk making that any worse. So

I said, yep, I want a caesarean if that's the case. She

kind of glossed over that and, okay, I'll come back in a little bit. I

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think she got whisked off to go and do an emergency caesarean or something, and didn't come back for a few hours. So

I went and spoke to the senior midwife and said, look, I want to go home. It's

been more than 24 hours. The

midwife last night told me that that's trust policy. You

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know, if it's been more than 24 hours since your last fresh bleed, then you can go home. And

that's what I want to do. And

the midwife agreed with me. She

said, yep, absolutely. That's

what we would normally do. The

doctor that has come to see you, she is newly qualified. So

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I think she's probably just being a little over cautious, which was reassuring in one way, but a little bit annoying in another, because I just thought I'm going to have an induction just because the doctor's newly qualified and a bit overly cautious. So

she said, that's fine. I'll

28:23

tell the doctor and I'll get her to come and see you. If

she's still otherwise engaged, you know, in a few hours time, you can self discharge. I

said, okay, that's fine. If

she doesn't come in a few hours, I'll discharge myself. Let

me know how to do that. The

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doctor didn't come. I

think she had got some back emergencies or whatnot. So

eventually they brought over the discharge papers. And

there was a point in the discharge papers where they have to read some terms and conditions about, you know, you could be responsible for the death of your baby and stillbirth and, you know, you're opening yourself up to all these risks and it sounded really horrible and really ominous. And

29:03

my other half was there at this point and he was a bit like, oh, are we sure we sure we want to sign that? But

I did because I thought it's just wording. I'm

a sensible person. I

know that if anything else happens untoward, I will come straight back in. So

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that's what I did. And

yeah, we went home. I

then had my, I didn't have the full appointment with the consultant midwife just yet. She

called me the day after and we had a bit of a conversation and said, we'll plan an appointment for I think it was a week's time. I

29:41

was convinced I wouldn't get that far. I

was convinced I was going to go into labor that weekend. So

I was like, I really need you to just sign up to the what I want now and put it in my notes so that at least if I have to go into hospital, everything's there, which she was amazing. She

29:57

did. She

tatted on the phone to me for well over an hour, taking notes of everything that I wanted and explaining reasons why some things might be difficult after the bleed and why I could have some things. And

that was really great. But

30:13

then we actually got to the physical appointment. I

didn't go into labor, which was great. We

got to sit down with her. And

I went in equipped with my birth plan that I'd used from your template, from your course, which was amazing. She

was very impressed with by the way. And

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yeah, she, I was expecting to go into that appointment having to fight for every choice that I wanted, but it was the complete opposite experience. She

was incredible. She

sat there. She

listened to everything that I wanted. She

looked at my birth plan and said, oh, you know, I can see that you're clearly well educated, you know, I completely understand why you would want these things. Let's

30:54

talk about some of them, like the fact that I wanted physiological third stage, if I'd had a physiological birth. You

know, we discussed the sort of risks and benefits of that. And

we agreed that yet if it was physiological, she would put in my notes that my choice was to have a physiological third stage. Optimal

31:16

chord, cramping, you know, all of the other multitude of things that were in my birth plan, we covered every point. She

also took a copy of my birth plan and said that she would basically write her own version within the system and upload that. So

31:33

that if I go into hospital, the midwife who is looking after me will be able to go onto the system and it will pop up in big red writing, click here for consultant midwife notes, and it had my entire birth plan. And

that was that was amazing having that reassurance of knowing that there was finally somebody on my side that I felt like I could rely on in the system was such a good feeling. Yeah,

32:01

I felt like she was fighting my court on which was brilliant. And

that then helped me to relax a little bit while I was waiting for labor because I think the last three weeks they were very tense after the bleed, we were very nervous, you know, constantly waiting for something to happen. So

32:18

it was nice to be able to relax a little bit knowing, okay, we should be able to still get the birth experience that we want. The

last few weeks then of pregnancy, you know, they just sort of carried on as normal really. They

32:35

were very uncomfortable, which wasn't something I'd experienced with my first. And

my first I was very comfortable the whole way through really, whereas this time, I think after having, after having had one baby already, my body was a little bit more tired and a bit more achy and a bit more ready to just get on with this now. But

32:57

I continued to do my sort of forward leaning inversions, trying to make sure baby was in the best position possible. Every

evening I'd sit on my birth ball instead of sitting on the sofa, which probably wasn't the most comfortable, but I definitely felt like it helped. I

33:16

know that during my first my first pregnancy, I'd sit sort of curled upon the sofa in front of the TV and not realizing probably what a detrimental effect that had. So

I was very conscious of that this time. And

then at 39 weeks and two days, I went into labor. And

33:34

I've been having cramps and twinges all week in the middle of the night, at like two, three o 'clock in the morning, I'd sort of wake up and think, oh, is that a contraction? What,

what is that? That

definitely feels like something, you know, tightening. In

the end, I've downloaded a contraction tracking app just to try and make sense of what the feeling was all the time. And

33:55

it was happening every, every night. But

I could tell it wasn't, it wasn't labor, it wasn't active labor. So

I'd tell me the half about it in the morning, I think I might have been having some contractions, which I think then set him on edge for an entire week. And

34:11

I think he was on, on red alert the whole time waiting to go to the hospital. And

then the night that I actually went into labor, we'd had a really chilled evening, you know, we'd, we'd had a really nice relaxing time. We'd

gone up to bed, it was probably about midnight. It

34:28

was quite late. And

I remember sitting on the bed, we were chatting, and I just had this really intense stomach ache. And

I said to my other half, well, that feels really uncomfortable. Like,

I think I just, I think I just need to go to the loo, just give me five minutes, went to the toilet, nothing really happened, went back to bed, and I thought, no, that still feel really uncomfortable. And

34:54

literally within a minute, I had really intense contraction, which I, I knew then was an attraction, like I recognized the feeling and I thought, oh, my God, like that's a proper full labor contraction. And

said to my other half, I think I'm in labor. And

35:13

he was like, no, you're not like, you've been saying this all week, you're fine. Genuinely,

I think I'm in labor, I think you need to call your mom. And

you could tell from his face, he thought, oh, my God, really? And

they were, they were already coming, picking fast, you know, I think in a half an hour period, they were coming every two minutes. So

35:36

it felt like it had gone from 0 to 100 really quickly. We

tried ironically throughout the whole of pregnancy, I'd kind of been a bit worried about going into labor in the middle of the night, just with the logistics of a toddler and getting, you know, my mother -in -law to come and look after him and watch it doesn't wake up. Oh,

35:53

my God. But

fortunately she did. She

whizzed over, she leaves 10 minutes away. She

whizzed over, came and looked after the toddler. We

hopped straight in the car and went straight to the hospital. In

36:08

the meantime, while we were waiting for her to turn up, I had phoned the hospital because the midwife, the consultant midwife, sorry, had said to me, go in the midwife led unit when you think you're ready to go into the hospital. And

in the half an hour between you going from your house to the hospital, they can at least run the bath for you, because it will take some time to run. So

36:29

I phoned them and the midwife who answered the phone, you know, asked me a few questions, established that this was my second baby, asked me how far apart the contractions were. I

think she could hear from my voice that they were already quite intense. I

36:44

didn't try to hide it this time. I

know during my first labor, I really put a brave face on on the phone and yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. I'm

good. I'm

good. This

time I did not try to hide that at all, because I thought they're just going to tell me, no, no, no, you're all right. Don't

37:01

don't worry about it. You're

probably not in active labor. But

I knew I definitely 100 % was it felt really, really strong. But

the midwife who answered the phone was lovely, but said the midwife led unit wasn't open. So

I sort of relayed the message that the consultant midwife had given to me of if they tell you that the midwife led unit is shut, tell them that the consultant midwife has said that I'm midwife can, you know, be used from the labor ward to go to the midwife led unit, open the midwife led unit and you can have your baby there. I

37:35

told her this. And

she obviously said, look, I'll have to go and speak to the duty manager. Hop

in the car by the time you get here, hopefully I'll have an answer for you. I

thought, okay, fine. Nothing

else I can do about it right now. We'll

37:51

just get in the car and we'll go. In

the car on the way there. My

other half he put on some really calming classical music in the car. I

had my comb in my hand and just tried to close my eyes and just zone out on the way to the hospital. Which

38:10

was brilliant at like one o 'clock in the morning. There

was hardly anybody on the road. So

that actually worked quite well. And

then when we arrived at the hospital, the midwife from the phone was waiting for us. She

38:27

could tell that I was an active labor. As

soon as we arrived, I think just from my behavior. And,

you know, as soon as I got there, I was leaning on the wall and having to breathe through a contraction. And

I think she thought, oh, okay, this really is go time. So

she took her straight into an assessment room, said that she'd quickly go and chase up the duty manager about the midwife led unit. And

38:48

then asked if she would be able to do a vaginal exam when she came back. So

Richard said, yeah, that's fine. I

was happy for her to do it. I

was convinced that I would be, you know, more than four centimeters by this point. I

almost felt like he was ready to come out at this point. So

39:03

yeah, that's fine. After

she left the room, we're the half asked for the lights to be turned down just to try and calm the environment down because it was very bright, you know, typical sort of hospital environment in that room. And

39:18

I then, you know, stripped off my bottom half with his help. And

I just could not get comfortable. I

had to lean on the side of the bed. And

every time I had a contraction, I remember just going up on tiptoes, just in an attempt to get comfortable. I'm

assuming that was probably the baby coming down and just getting into position. But

39:37

that felt like the only way that I could sort of cope with it was to get on my tiptoes. And

I had to ask me the half to ask for some gas and air because I just thought this is so intense, like I just need something. Obviously

up to this point, I hadn't had anything. And

39:54

it wasn't very long, you know, we were probably only hour, two hours, maybe in. But

it felt like, you know, when I was 10 centimeters with my first, it was that same intensity. So

40:10

he went and asked for some gas and air. I

was being very vocal. I

remember at this point as well, I wasn't trying to, I wasn't trying to hide that. I

was just kind of going with it. It

felt good to make a noise. It

felt like it was helping. So

40:27

I did it. I

think they started moving a little bit faster as well. They

could hear me making so much noise. I

think they thought, you know, we probably need to get her seen, which was great. She

came back in, she did the vaginal examination and said that I was five centimeters dilated. To

40:49

help me get off the bed really quickly because it was super, super uncomfortable being on my back. And

instantly got back on while I went onto my knees and lent over the seat of the armchair because that felt like the only position I could get comfortable, relatively comfortable in. And

41:05

then I overheard her saying to my other half, I'm really, really sorry, but they won't open the midwife led unit. She

did say in the meantime, between us coming from home to the hospital, she had arranged for one of the pools on the labor ward to be run for me because she'd seen in my notes from the consultant midwife on the system. But

41:28

that was something that I wanted. So

she sort of directed the question at me. I

couldn't really talk at this point. So

I just nodded. So

she arranged to go and get a wheelchair. At

this point, a midwife with gas and air then came and bless her, the midwife from the phone, who I think she had then now become our midwife for the delivery. So

41:52

he turned around and said, no, it's too late. Put

it back. We're

going straight down. Just

me if I wanted to walk. And

I thought there's no way I'm going to be able to walk that far. I

felt like I couldn't even walk to the door. So

I just shook my head and hopped onto the, hopped onto the wheelchair with my little entourage of it felt like about 10 people following me on the wheelchair. I

42:13

don't actually know how many there were because I had my eyes shut the entire time, but felt like there were a lot of people. I

remember really vividly that they were trying to tuck a blanket in around me because I'd obviously got nothing on my bottoms. And

42:30

I was like, no, just leave it. Just

leave it. It's

really annoying. No,

no, you're going to want it on as you go down the corridor in front of all the people. And

probably in hindsight, yeah, but I did. And

then, yeah, we pulled up at the at the delivery suite room that we were in and hopped out of the wheelchair. And

42:52

it was actually a really nice room. It

was quite spacious. I'd

not seen their rooms on the delivery suite before. But

it was actually really nice. As

soon as we got in there, she turned the lights off because I think she'd remembered from what my other half had said that I wanted lights off. And

43:10

she went straight to go and get the gas and air nozzle for me. I

went and stood at the side of the birth pool. She

gave me the nozzle and I just, as soon as I had that first breath of gas and air with my next contraction, I instantly felt my whole body relax. And

43:26

I don't necessarily think it was the gas and air. I

think it was just the thought of, oh, I'm here now. And

I can relax. This

is where I can have my baby. I'm

in the environment I want to be in. It's

okay now. And

43:42

I think for the first time in the whole labor, I could laugh in between a contraction that I actually, I don't know if I cracked a joke or something. Something

happened and we all laughed and I thought, oh, okay, it's fine now. The

43:58

midwife then helped me to get into the pool. Where

the half helped me take my top off. Climbed

into the pool. And

it was really warm, which was actually really nice, wasn't I was expecting. But

44:16

that was really good because, as I say, I really like a bath. It

really relaxes me. And

I think just that association of, oh, I'm in the bath now, really helped me to feel more relaxed. And

my instinct was just to get on my knees and lean on the seat in the birth pool with my elbows, essentially on all fours, just about like the most comfortable position. I

44:43

stayed in that position then. But

for the rest of the labor, I didn't feel like I wanted to move. I

was perfectly happy in that position. My

other half, he knelt at the side of the pool with the gas and air nozzle just sort of holding it in place for me. So

I didn't have to hold it. I

think I probably felt like I was breaking his wrists every time I had a contraction and I was putting a lot of pressure on the nozzle. But

45:05

blessing me, he hung in there. A

couple of times, the midwife and my partner had to remind me not to put my head in the water. I

think with the contraction, I kept going right down as close as I could to the water. And

I don't think I wasn't in any danger. I

knew what I was doing. But

45:22

I think they were just a little bit scared that I was going to drown myself. But

that was fine. The

room was lovely and quiet and calm. Midwife

occasionally came over and checked baby's heart rate with the Doppler, which was exactly what I'd had in my birth plan. I'd

45:43

said that I don't want any continuous monitoring or anything like that. I

just wanted intermittent monitoring. She

didn't even ask. She

just checked that I was okay to do it at the time, but she didn't ask me any details of, you know, nothing to bring me out of the zone. She

45:59

checked his heartbeat in silence. I

could hear it. She'd

go back to her station in the corner of the room. She

never made a sound. Every

so often, I would ask her, is he okay? Because

in a way, the silence was actually making me a little bit nervous because I thought she's not seeing anything. I

46:16

thought they'd say something. She

reassured me, yeah, absolutely fine. It's

all good. Keep

doing what you're doing. My

other half asked me if I wanted to play list on. I'd

made two playlists. I've

46:32

been making them for ages before I went into labour. I'd

got relaxing, you know, relaxing labour playlists, or get me a bit zen, and then an upbeat one just in case labour wasn't quite as short as it ended up being to get me a bit more happy and get the oxytocin flowing. In

46:51

my head, I remember thinking, oh, that'd actually be really nice. But

I didn't say anything. I

don't know why. I

had a bit of an out of body experience, and I remember thinking it and just not saying anything. But

actually, the peace and quiet in the room was really nice. The

47:11

only noise was me, which I didn't care about. It

was actually just really nice being really nice and peaceful. It

was obviously in the middle of the night as well. There

was no other noise from out in the corridor or anything. As

47:26

I say, the midwife, she was amazing. Bless

us. She

just sat there in the corner. You

wouldn't have even known she was there other than the occasional high ping -a -bong on the keyboard of updating notes or whatever. As

I say, I was making a lot of noises at this point. There

were really low, sort of moaning sounds. I

47:45

wasn't conscious of them at all. They

just felt instinctive, and every time a contraction happened, it just felt like it helped. So

I kept doing it. I

48:01

couldn't have stopped myself doing it if I tried it, actually, to be honest. Then

I realised that things must have been progressing when the midwife said to me, Emma, I believe you want a physiological third stage. Is

that right? And

I nodded. I

don't even think that my other half had had chance to, because it had all moved so quickly, I don't even think he'd had chance to give her my physical printed birth plan. So

48:26

she'd obviously read up on the consultant midwife birth plan in the system, which was brilliant because it was so nice knowing that she knew exactly what I wanted. Then

not long after that, it felt like I needed to push. The

48:42

midwife asked me if, do you feel like, you know, I think she could tell that something had changed, and she asked me, do you feel like you need to push? And

I don't know why I said it. I

went, oh, I don't know. And

I obviously did, because the next contraction that came, I just started pushing. I

49:01

couldn't stop myself. But

something in my head, I don't think I'd registered that that's what the feeling was. With

my first birth, I never actually got the opportunity to push. I

never had that sensation of pushing. And

then when I gave birth, my first, I had a spinal blocker in place, and obviously the four steps and I couldn't feel anything. So

49:20

this felt completely different. It

just felt like I just couldn't not push it. It

was, it felt like I was scratching an itch almost like that was the only way to satisfy the feeling was to push down on it. The

49:38

noises got just louder, my face got more animated. Again,

I felt like I had one of those out of body experiences where I just floated up above myself and thought in my head, oh, God, I'm putting some weird faces. I

49:54

just couldn't, couldn't stop myself. And

a few more contractions, a few more pushes, was really trying to control my breathing. But

at the same time, I was just letting go and just doing what felt instinctive, what felt right. And

50:11

I can't remember whether it was my other half or the midwife, one of them have obviously noticed a change in my breathing. And

they said, like, you know, you've got this, just remember to breathe. It's

okay. Which

kind of helped me to, oh, okay, yeah, I do need to remember to breathe. The

50:26

whole time, I was still clutching onto my comb with all my might and my one hand. And

then a couple of pushes later, I just felt something happen. And

I couldn't, I didn't really know what it was. It

50:42

was just a huge change. And

I put my hand down between my legs. And

I could feel his head. And

it did not feel anything like I thought it was going to feel it was really strange. Like,

oh, my gosh, it's so slippy. It

was really, really sort of, yeah, just slippy. There

50:59

was no, I couldn't feel hair or anything. And

I thought, well, that feels really strange. But

the midwife obviously noticed that that's, that's what had happened. And

she'd seen in my birth plan that if the position that I was in allowed for it, that I wanted to catch my baby. So

51:17

she said to me, look, on the next contraction, you know, the next push, he's likely to be born. So

just get ready to grab him. So

when the next contraction came pushed, and sure enough, he just came out into the water. And

51:33

I remember reaching down and grabbing him, pulled him straight up to my chest. And

for the first few seconds, I just think I was in shock. I

just felt stunned, like, more than I couldn't believe that I'd actually done it. I

51:50

sort of glanced down at him, but I didn't even register that he was there. I

don't think. And

I just had to take like a few breaths, a few, few moments to myself to just sort of gather myself again. And

I remember that the midwife sort of reached around to touch him. And

52:09

I didn't realise why at the time. But

it was only afterwards when she was explaining to me that actually when he'd come out and I was holding him, she said he looked really gray. And

she was a little bit worried until she realised that he was still in his amniotic sack. He'd

52:25

been born on corn. So

he was completely encased in his sack still. And

so she'd reached over to break the sack open and obviously release the waters and let him, you know, be able to cry and to breathe. So

52:43

she had said to me after the event that that was the first uncle delivery that she had seen in her career, which felt really cool and really special. Not

that I could have planned it, but it was really, yeah, it was really nice to have that. We

52:59

then stayed in at the pool, soaked at the moment where the half he came around behind us to kind of see the baby. And

you could just feel the oxytocin in the room. It

was just like an amazing period of time. I

couldn't even tell you how long it was. It

53:17

just felt so nice. It

was so calm, so serene. The

midwife, she was, bless her, getting her hands dirty in the pool and getting all the blood clots out and looking for things that looked abnormal, which there weren't any, which was great. There

53:33

was plenty of blood in the pool, but by this point, didn't really care as long as she was telling me that it wasn't a problem. It's

fine. And

she did ask me, do you feel ready for the placenta to come out? Do

you feel like you could push that out? And

53:48

I sort of did a few gentle, consciously did a few gentle pushes and I thought, it just felt weird. I

was sitting on my bum now by this point, obviously holding him. I

think I had got him to latch as well at this point and I was feeding him and I just thought, no, it just didn't feel comfortable. She

54:07

was amazing. She

didn't push it. And

she just said to my other half, would you like to cut the cord? He

hadn't cut the cord with my first. I

think mainly because of the way delivery had gone after delivering my first. It

54:23

was all very rushed. The

environment was completely different. It

didn't feel like a joyous environment after my first one was born. It

was very stressful. And

so I think he wanted to stay with me. Whereas

this time, he'd said in advance, I don't want to cut the cord. But

54:39

in the moment, he said, no, actually, yeah, I do want to cut the cord, which was really lovely because it just felt like, you know, the moment was that amazing that he thought, no, I'm definitely going to cut the cord. And

then whilst the midwife and my other half were sort of to the side of me, arranging to cut the cord and she was showing you what to do and whatever, I just felt another really uncomfortable contraction. And

55:04

I had to sort of lean to one side to sort of take the pressure off my palm. And

I just, yeah, just pushed just because that's what felt natural to do and outslid the placenta. And

I did panic, I panicked at first thinking, oh my God, that's a huge blood clot. Oh,

55:24

what was that? And

because I couldn't really see it in the water because the water was so like bloody and murky at this point. Oh,

no, I did mention it to the midwife and went, oh, something big just came out. And

they cut the cord and she went and fished it out with a little net. And

55:44

sure enough, it was the placenta, which was amazing because it then meant, you know, there was no waiting around for it. I

should say actually as well, before they cut the cord, she did ask me, am I happy for the cord to be cut? And

I asked her, you know, has the cord gone white? And

56:02

she said, oh yeah, it went white about half an hour ago. So

we'd been sat in the water for that time. She

had not once bothered me in trying to get us to cut the cord early, she just let it happen. And

I was so grateful for that, because I was really conscious that I felt like I was going to be put under pressure to cut the cord sooner than I needed to. And

56:25

when she said it had been about half an hour, I just thought, oh, wow, well, there you go then. That's

amazing. As

long as you're telling me it's gone white, yeah, go ahead and cut it up. You

know, haven't got a problem with that. So

yeah, so that was that was amazing really. She

56:41

even when she was fishing about in the pool, she in her little net, she caught the amniotic sack that he was born in. I

remember she filled it with water, I've got a picture of her actually, she filled it with water and sort of held it up saying that we could see what it looked like. She's

like, look, that's how strong it is. We

56:58

were like, it's amazing. The

only thing I didn't do, which I'm really gutted about is I didn't look at the placenta. Because

I didn't look with my first either and I don't know why I'd really wanted to see it. But

it wasn't the most important thing at the time. And

57:14

yeah, and I just didn't believe I'd done it. I

just felt like a superwoman. It

was such an amazing feeling that I've actually done this. I

was completely unassisted. I

knew what I was doing. Stucked

57:31

my guns, you know, I had my gas and air on my comb. I

think I'd been squeezing my comb that hard that I think I did probably bruise my hand a bit. But

I mean, it did the job. It

distracted me from what I was from what I was feeling. So

57:47

yeah, we had a bit more of a cuddle. Then

I got out of the pool. The

midwife helped me out the pool. We

had a cuddle with baby. Went

over to the bed. I

still felt a little bit unsteady on my feet. So

she had to help me over on. She

58:03

checked me for tears. She

was keeping an eye on the blood as well because I was still losing blood a bit at this point. And

she was just a bit conscious of that I'm assuming probably also because I'd had a previous history of PPH. They

bought us some tea and toast. They

offered my other half tea and toast as well, which seems like such a small thing. But

58:24

I think actually really meant a lot to him because it made him feel like he was part of the experience. I

think so often, you know, the birth partners just kind of get shoved to one side. But

you know, it was it was his experience as well. And

58:40

I think the fact that they sort of acknowledged that he was a part of it and that he had also been up all night and that he was also probably tired and hungry. And

I think that really meant a lot to him. And

I do think it's a shame that, you know, she even said, look, I'm not supposed to offer you to have any tea and toast, but would you like one? And

58:58

I think it was really, it was really important that they did. And

I do think, you know, for the extra cost of a couple of slices of bread and a cup of tea, I do think that they should build that in a bit more as just a you can ask birth partners if they want to in taste like it shouldn't be a we'll have to sneak you some. Because

59:18

yeah, I just think that meant a lot to him. Midwife

came and checked me for tears. She

asked for my consent for everything she did. The

main thing I can't fault any of the midwives on the day, to be honest. They

all asked me for consent for everything. I

59:36

had got a couple of tears, small tears, and she said, look, they probably will be beneficial because of where they're located for you to have stitches just to make sure they fuse together properly. I

said, yeah, that's fine. Agreed

to that. They

smarted a little bit more than I expected when they were stitching me up. So

I had my gas and air and I used my hip and a birthing again and breathed through them. Didn't

59:56

realize I'd be using it quite so soon again after having a baby. But

yeah, did that, you know, and then they left us alone. But

you know, the three of us for a few hours, they just popped the heads in every now and again, just to come in and check the bleeding, like on the pads and whatnot. But

1:00:14

they kind of left us to it. And,

you know, my other half, he was amazing. He,

you know, was having a bit of one -to -one time with our son. And

I will say, he was amazing throughout the entire birth as well. I

think it just reaffirms me how important birth partners are, you know, making sure that the environment was right when we went into a room, asking the midwife for things, because I didn't feel like I could talk for a lot of it. It

1:00:41

felt so intense. And

I think I felt so in the zone that I needed him to ask for those things for me. And

because he knew what I wanted, it was kind of easy for him to do that. And,

you know, even just to the point of just being there next to the pool, holding the gas and air for me, reassuring me that I was doing okay, you know, you would not be doing a really good job and being there for me if I needed him. Yeah,

1:01:11

I think was amazing. And

I think that probably is as a result of doing a course with you. And

he knew the importance of his presence and being able to advocate for me if he needed to and asking for all those things, the environment and the atmosphere and liaising with the midwife. So,

1:01:31

yeah, that was amazing. And

then, yeah, I just had a shower, got cleaned up, felt a bit nauseous, so I couldn't eat my tea and toast, unfortunately. So

I never got that. Amazing

tea and toast experience everybody talks about, but I think maybe just the shock of it all or whatever, I don't know, I just felt a bit nauseous. And

1:01:50

then we just sat and watched the darkness turn into daylight and, you know, eventually they said, right, we'll transfer you up to the postnatal ward just while we're waiting for your blood test results to come back, just because I'd lost quite a lot of blood. I

think they said I was just on the border. I

1:02:06

was 500 ml of blood loss. So

probably technically postpartum hemorrhage again. And

then, yeah, we went upstairs where the half went home to try and get a little bit of rest, just go and catch up with mother -in -law about toddler and how he'd been in the night. And

1:02:25

me and baby stayed in the hospital. And

I remember texting you because I was so excited to tell you what happened. And

you were one of the first people I told, I think. Yeah,

I remember texting you saying, I feel amazing. I

feel like superwoman. I

1:02:41

can't believe I've done it. But

I did. I

felt so good. I

felt so proud. I've

never felt more proud of myself in my whole life. You

did amazing. You

did so well. You

made such good decisions all the way through pregnancy and during labor. And

1:03:01

I'm so, I'm so happy for you that you got that healing birth. And,

you know, the fact that, you know, it didn't quite go to plan. You

didn't, you didn't get to the birth at home. You

didn't get to birth in the birth centre. But

you knew or your partner knew how to make the most of where you did give birth. You

1:03:20

potentially wouldn't have had that knowledge or he wouldn't have if he hadn't have done the course and educated himself. Yeah,

I'm just, I'm so, I'm so, so happy for you that you got the kind of birth that you did. And

1:03:35

yeah, I just think you're, you're amazing. You're,

you know, you really tuned into your body. You

really listened to yourself. You

knew your stuff. And

that's why you had such an amazing experience. Yeah,

1:03:51

I do genuinely think there is so much to be said for educating yourself. And

I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for my first, I didn't know I needed to be. I

just thought with my first baby, my body will know what to do. You

know, people have been giving birth to babies for thousands of years. But

1:04:10

actually, it's not necessarily always your body that you need to be aware of. It's

the system and everything as well. And

after my first experience, like I had a birth debrief, after my first experience with the obstetrician who delivered my baby, which was amazing, I would actually recommend that with anybody who has a difficult first or a difficult any delivery for ask for a birth debrief, because it was, it was so helpful and it was so enlightening. And

1:04:38

it was reassuring. It

made me feel like actually, I haven't necessarily, I haven't necessarily done anything wrong. It's

not that this is going to happen again. It

was just a chance really. There

probably were things that I could have done to have avoided it, not being sitting culled upon the sofa or, and, you know, getting into better positions when I was in labor with my first, I spent 90 % of the labor lying on my back on the bed. And

1:05:08

so I didn't realize that it would be beneficial not to do that. And

because it was during COVID with my first, you know, the antenatal in -person courses, they weren't running. I'd

had like a one hour free antenatal course online with a, with a midwife. And

1:05:26

I thought, yeah, that's fine. That

helped me. I'm

good. I

don't need to know any more than that. No,

that was absolutely rubbish. I

definitely 100 % needed to know more than that. But

I think that first experience caught me that I needed to know more than that. And

1:05:41

it is a shame that, you know, that that has to happen in order for you to feel like, you know, okay, I need to educate myself better. Because

the system is not necessarily there to do what's best for me or for my baby or for my experience necessarily. Potentially

1:06:02

they're also doing what's best for the system or, you know, what's, what's best for them. And

yeah, I think that that was a hard lesson to learn. But

I think it was important. And

yeah, not knowledge is definitely the key. And

1:06:18

I am, I'm so interested in it now. The

level of interest that I got in birth and pregnancy and delivery was amazing. Like

I was so excited about it by the time we had our second child. Just

because it was, it's just so fascinating. And

1:06:37

I think being able to tell my other half, all of these things that I'd learned when I listened to your podcast and, you know, red posts or whatever it was that I was doing, I used to be able to talk to him about all these statistics and whatever in birth. And

I remember him being so like, you know, so much. And

1:06:56

now you're, now you're, you know, unless I'm so appreciative of you coming and sharing your story, ecause you are intern educating lots of people who, you know, first time or subsequent pregnancies, but hopefully by listening to your story, and it may help first time parents to go and do some education and understand why it's so important. And

1:07:26

reassure people that have had a traumatic first birth that subsequent births don't have to be traumatic as well. So

thank you so much for sharing your story. And

I can't wait for it to go out live and for everybody to hear it. And

1:07:43

yeah, I just, I just think it's such a fabulous story to share. So

thank you so much for coming and sharing it with everybody. Thank

you so much for having me. Thank

you. Thanks.

The

1:08:04

Better Birth podcast and all of its content is for educational and informational purposes only. You

should consult your midwife or your doctor for anything in relation to your own pregnancy and birth. The

opinions and the reviews of the guests on the Better Birth podcast are their own opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Better Birth or Erin Fung.